Curse

DragonRogue · Mar 19, 2009, 08:42 AM // 08:42

The idea that PVPers had large amounts of Balth Faction saved up and nothing to spend it on, since everything on their account was already unlocked, is basically the same as what i am going for with PVE skill points. Its exactly the same thing, just a different aspect.

Anet decided that something should be done for the PVPers unused balth faction and the Zchest was their answer. So why cant the PVErs also have something that eats up their SPs? ZKeys was the most logical answer, since it is already here, and since the keys are mostly sold to the PVErs anyway, instead of asking for some new modification to be added to the game for them. This chest failed in showing how much BF a player had the minute the PVPers started selling the keys, either to the PVErs or to eachother. Doesnt matter.

There has yet to be any good arguement against this that has not been motivated purely by greed that i have seen yet.

Dr.Jones · Mar 19, 2009, 11:18 AM // 11:18

@ rohara i like your idea.

an much simpler way to fix this is just make it so pvp dosnt give xp.

Side note yes there needs to be something else usefull that people can use skill points on
one idea i had was 2skill points = sig of capture and 5= a normal tome. 10=elite tome i know my numbers are not what they should be so dont flame me, they are there just to give the basic idea that i had.

go cubs · Mar 19, 2009, 12:16 PM // 12:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by go cubs

Make a dude that takes 5 skill points(sp's) for regular tome and 50sp for elite tome...maybe different numbers but a tome trader would be fairly relative to sp's

Quote:

one idea i had was 2skill points = sig of capture and 5= a normal tome. 10=elite tome i know my numbers are not what they should be so dont fame me, they are there just to give the basic idea that i had

I agree...lol

spirit of defeat · Mar 19, 2009, 03:46 PM // 15:46

Simple and not overpowerd idea.

let SP buy blessings you can get at shrine in explorables.
not the faction blessings, but the /kneel blessings.

Sword Hammer Axe · Mar 19, 2009, 05:17 PM // 17:17

No. Price on Z-keys would drop and a lot of people would grind levels instead of doing PvP + all the low levelers there would be solely for farming skill points.

HOWEVER: The idea of something new to use skillpoints for I
/sign
for because I have the same problem :S I use them once in a while on consumables in EotN but still have 500 + skill points on my main char. I have all skills so can't really use them on skills lol :P

I think there should rather be more PvE alternatives instead. Like: Consumables in Factions, NF and prophecies instead of only EotN, certain weaponsmiths with unique weaponskins taking like 20 skill points + some k and some materials for their items, maybe some traders that accept skill points only, like: Lockpick (5 skill points) ID kit (1 skill point) Sup ID kit (2 skill points) salvage kit (1 skill point) x-pert salvage kit (2 skill points) sup salvage kit (5 skill points) some kinda alcohol (2 skill points) some kinda sweet (2 skill points), something like that.

DragonRogue · Mar 19, 2009, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sword Hammer Axe

No. Price on Z-keys would drop and a lot of people would grind levels instead of doing PvP + all the low levelers there would be solely for farming skill points.

I love how everyone doesnt want their Zkeys to come down in price to make it actually reflect the cost of the majority of items that actually fall from the chest. Seems most still dont really want to open the chest or have a chance at working on this title to the max, but rather want the free gold they get from them instead.

HOWEVER: The idea of something new to use skillpoints for I
/sign
for because I have the same problem :S I use them once in a while on consumables in EotN but still have 500 + skill points on my main char. I have all skills so can't really use them on skills lol :P

This is why the idea to turn them into Tomes is completely useless. We obviously have all the skills we need or can get or we wouldnt have Fn skill points to spend.

I think there should rather be more PvE alternatives instead. Like: Consumables in Factions, NF and prophecies instead of only EotN, certain weaponsmiths with unique weaponskins taking like 20 skill points + some k and some materials for their items, maybe some traders that accept skill points only, like: Lockpick (5 skill points) ID kit (1 skill point) Sup ID kit (2 skill points) salvage kit (1 skill point) x-pert salvage kit (2 skill points) sup salvage kit (5 skill points) some kinda alcohol (2 skill points) some kinda sweet (2 skill points), something like that.

So far this is the best alternative ive seen yet. However, now i can hear the town controling guild QQ threads about how no one is buying their lockpicks anymore and we are cutting into that market, and even more QQ threads about how holiday items are worthless to farm for extra cash.

Zkeys were never intended to be an alternate source of trading or income. The rewards were intended to be the emote, title, and items from the chest. Even at rock bottom prices, zkeys would never fall to less than 1k per key. Why? Because even the items that fall would be worth close to that, so people would just use the keys themselves and sell the items instead. At the rate the XTH and PVP farmers are going, the prices of they keys will eventually diminish to this sooner or later. And when it does, there will be no one left to care if the PVE uses skill points on them or not.

Did it ever occur to anyone that ANET has allowed the XTH, and the multiple accounts of the XTH, because they realized that this title and intent failed in what it was to reflect, and are purposly wanting the market of the keys to crash? The Zaishen title track was broken the minute the PVPer started selling the keys, the PVErs are buying those keys and now have even more from the XTH. The PVE has always wanted an emote, and we have always grinded for titles and that is why the PVE are buying these keys. So it makes sense, that the PVE use their skill points on those keys.

zling · Mar 19, 2009, 09:17 PM // 21:17

/not signed
you already get enough from farming, no need for more.
also you can get free zkeys with the XTH, no need for more free zkeys ideas.

draxynnic · Mar 20, 2009, 01:30 AM // 01:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragonRogue

The idea that PVPers had large amounts of Balth Faction saved up and nothing to spend it on, since everything on their account was already unlocked, is basically the same as what i am going for with PVE skill points. Its exactly the same thing, just a different aspect.

Anet decided that something should be done for the PVPers unused balth faction and the Zchest was their answer. So why cant the PVErs also have something that eats up their SPs? ZKeys was the most logical answer, since it is already here, and since the keys are mostly sold to the PVErs anyway, instead of asking for some new modification to be added to the game for them. This chest failed in showing how much BF a player had the minute the PVPers started selling the keys, either to the PVErs or to eachother. Doesnt matter.

There has yet to be any good arguement against this that has not been motivated purely by greed that i have seen yet.

It's worse than that, in fact.

Balth. Faction doesn't cost anything else to use. Skill points, however, do - so not only can you get into a situation where you have nothing less to spend them on, you can also find yourself into a situation where you literally can't afford to spend them due to not being able to pay the gold/material cost of doing so.

gameshoes3003 · Mar 20, 2009, 01:41 AM // 01:41

/notsigned

Sorry, I don't agree with PvP rewards. But trading those in for things like ID kits may not be so bad.

Zahr Dalsk · Mar 20, 2009, 01:50 AM // 01:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightmare_Pwn

Or 1 skill point = 100g

This. I have massive amounts of skillpoints on my characters... but I cannot use them because skills cost 1000gold each and I am not fond of farming. Would love to turn in some of those useless skillpoints.

King Jay · Mar 20, 2009, 02:01 AM // 02:01

Hmm. . . /unsigned.

Skill points are very easily obtained.

Most likely all of the Balth Faction will go to Z Keys.

Z Keys were designed for PvP i.e. Balth faction & Reward Points.

Sorry no.

draxynnic · Mar 20, 2009, 02:14 AM // 02:14

You know, part of me wonders if the thread should be retitled. It's gone to discussing alternate uses of skill points apart from just balthazar faction, but we're still getting regular /notsigned posts for the faction idea without the poster giving any opinion on any of the other ideas that have been raised.

DragonRogue · Mar 20, 2009, 11:07 AM // 11:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Jay

Hmm. . . /unsigned.

Skill points are very easily obtained.

Most likely all of the Balth Faction will go to Z Keys.

Z Keys were designed for PvP i.e. Balth faction & Reward Points.

Sorry no.

its harder to farm skill points in PVE than it is to farm Balth faction, when i have stated numerous times that 5-10 SPs per key. Even with raptor farmers and what not., AB gains at about the same rate.

The Zkeys were intended as a reward to PVP but that was broken the minute the first PVPer sold a Zkey.

Try again. Arguement is epic fail.

DRAX...this was originally two seperate threads, the old one about SPs to balth faction which i dont agree on, and mine which was merged into this one by a moderator about SPs to Zkeys. Similar ideas, two very different arguements. So we had to continue this here with this thread.

Junato · Mar 20, 2009, 12:43 PM // 12:43

If I have 500 skill points I would be getting all the skills in all profressions. Well, the good ones...

/notsigned

Plus, converting skill points to factions and vice versa is just a lazy way of gaining factions. What did the makers of GW think of just letting players do things the lazy way eh?

LordScro · Mar 20, 2009, 01:24 PM // 13:24

/signed

Most of the crap from the zaishen chest isnt stuff needed for PvP. The chest was just another way for them to get rich. Most of the people opening the chest are PvE players anyway.

10sp would be a good number, because that takes about as long as it does to get the 5k balth faction for a key.

draxynnic · Mar 23, 2009, 03:37 AM // 03:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragonRogue

DRAX...this was originally two seperate threads, the old one about SPs to balth faction which i dont agree on, and mine which was merged into this one by a moderator about SPs to Zkeys. Similar ideas, two very different arguements. So we had to continue this here with this thread.

I know the history... in fact, if you remembered yours, it was my comment that lead to your thread being merged into this one and not simply closed.

The two are pretty much equivalent. I don't know about you, but if skill points were suddenly able to be traded for Balth Faction, I know what I'd be spending the majority of mine on. The people who reject one are going to reject the other, and probably for much the same reasons. If it wasn't for keys, in fact, I'd guess the main objection to the proposal would be 'what's the point' - I don't really see anyone complaining about an experienced PvE player being able to convert skill points into unlocks or making fancy skins for a PvP character.

However, other proposals have been made that aren't based around zkeys, either directly or through the medium of Balth faction, and I'd be curious as to whether some of the people /notsigning would possibly /sign or at least /notcare to a proposal to use skill points as, for example, an alternate payment for favour blessings at Canthan and Elonian shrines.

DragonRogue · Mar 23, 2009, 12:16 PM // 12:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

I know the history... in fact, if you remembered yours, it was my comment that lead to your thread being merged into this one and not simply closed.

The two are pretty much equivalent. I don't know about you, but if skill points were suddenly able to be traded for Balth Faction, I know what I'd be spending the majority of mine on. The people who reject one are going to reject the other, and probably for much the same reasons. If it wasn't for keys, in fact, I'd guess the main objection to the proposal would be 'what's the point' - I don't really see anyone complaining about an experienced PvE player being able to convert skill points into unlocks or making fancy skins for a PvP character.

However, other proposals have been made that aren't based around zkeys, either directly or through the medium of Balth faction, and I'd be curious as to whether some of the people /notsigning would possibly /sign or at least /notcare to a proposal to use skill points as, for example, an alternate payment for favour blessings at Canthan and Elonian shrines.

The problem i see with using SPs for Balth Faction unlocks is who would then ever buy skills from a trader? No, PVE unlocks by finding items, and by buying skills...PVP gets the unlocks from BF. I do not see the need to alter this set up. My whole point is just in the Zchest not being what it was intended for anymore with the whole selling of the keys. Barring the XTH, the PVP has a corner on the market to sell to the PVE. This is not a good balance imo. Kind of like when the HA had control on who had access to the UW and FOW...Why should one aspect of the game have control over another? Since the Zchest is no longer JUST a PVP reward, it made sense to me that PVE use their SPs for this as well, since the PVP uses their spare BF for them. And with the XTH screwing with even the PVP control of the keys, what does it matter now? Other than the fact that the keys have become an alternate source of trade, and no one wants this to be effected, there is no other rational excuse or logical reason for this not to happen. If the keys had no value and were locked to an account and only that account, no one would be even arguing this. Greed has been the only counter point. Now i also believe that since the keys are tradable, that this idea is also being shot down because no one wants PVE to get richer. But since the majority of the buyers are PVE who ACTUALLY use the chest, this is a moot point, IMO.

As for using SPs on shrines, tomes, or much else that the PVE uses, many do not ever use these or have need of them. For me anyway, i can do HM without the need of anything a shrine has to offer, and i already have every skill offered. So this would be of no help. ID kits, salvage kits and lockpicks i could see use in. However as i have stated once, i can already see endless threads about how town controling guilds no longer have markets for these items that are already reduced priced that are sold ingame by thier members. And consumables cost more in mats and gold than most people have to use up all their SPs. So what else is left to use them on? PVP got to use their spare BF on something, so isnt it logical that the PVE get to use their spare SPs on something that helps them out? So instead of asking for a nice little PVE chest where more Dev time is required to implement....why not use it for the broken Zchest that we already have in game? PVE is already all over it anyway.

Kai Nui · Mar 23, 2009, 10:46 PM // 22:46

You can turn skill points into consumables, that's all you should be allowed to do. PVE and PVP need to be kept seperate as far as I'm concerned, or rather PVE should just be gotten rid of altogether.

Loveless Rage · Mar 23, 2009, 11:06 PM // 23:06

/notsigned

The last thing we need is the price of zkeys dropping even more. Zkeys = cheaper = not as rare items = more economy slumpage.

Skill points for gold would be okay. Say a single skill point for 300g or so.

Teh [prefession]-zorz · Mar 23, 2009, 11:18 PM // 23:18

I dont see why not.

/signed